Re: Freda Bedi Cont'd (#3)
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:52 am
"The gentle art of forgery"
by Morley Safer
60 Minutes
Feb 23, 2014
Back in the 1970s, Morley Safer interviewed art forger David Stein, who divulged the secrets of his trade
Transcript
In his lifetime the
0:05
great French impressionist painter Koro
0:07
painted 2,000 canvases of that number
0:11
more than 3000 are in the United States
0:13
the subject tonight is forgery the
0:16
gentle art of forgery a fascinating
0:19
subject that is as old as art itself and
0:21
what makes it fascinating is that we
0:24
know so little about it we can only talk
0:26
about unsuccessful forgeries how many
0:29
successful ones are hanging in museums
0:31
and private collections we can only
0:33
guess all those Kouros are a case in
0:35
point the thing about forgers is that
0:38
they hit us in the two most sensitive
0:40
parts of our Anatomy our pocketbook and
0:42
our aesthetics and they play upon our
0:45
least attractive quality greed one
0:49
hundred thousand I have it a hundred
0:50
thousand dollars for now a hundred
0:52
thousand dollars 100,000 100,000 and
0:55
practically every major sale new record
0:57
prices for artists for periods of art
1:00
are established that saw the bees and
1:02
Christie's in London at Parke Bernet in
1:04
New York old master works are knocked
1:07
down at auction for millions of dollars
1:09
nine hundred thousand 1 million get is
1:12
11 hundred thousand three hundred
1:13
thousand over here now two feet of
1:15
canvas can be inch 4 inch the most
1:18
valuable commodity in the world it's not
1:21
surprising then that the art market has
1:23
quietly attracted dollar-for-dollar
1:25
some of the world's most talented
1:27
scoundrels there's hardly a museum in
1:31
the world that has not in good faith
1:32
hung great master works actually painted
1:36
by great master forgers Rembrandt was
1:39
for a long time a tempting favorite for
1:41
Dutch forgers trained in the traditional
1:43
academic style of the master Botticelli
1:48
the preserve of the very very rich and
1:51
the very important museums has had some
1:54
remarkably talented admirers this is an
1:57
original by the great florentine master
2:01
this is a forgery made in the 30s not
2:04
discovered until the 60s and even what
2:08
must be the most famous painting in the
2:10
world La Gioconda the Mona Lisa
2:13
every few years a new one turns up whose
2:16
owner claims is the real one the
2:18
Leonardo is this the real one or is this
2:24
the da Vinci both are copies this is the
2:31
Mona Lisa the one hanging in the Louvre
2:33
which experts agree may not be the best
2:36
but is certainly the first detecting
2:40
forgeries of old masters has become a
2:43
relatively easy job technology can date
2:46
pigment and canvas even the dust and
2:49
soot that great forgers use to give the
2:51
impression of three or four hundred
2:52
years of time forgers of the period and
2:56
there have been forgers as long as
2:58
there's been painting are almost
3:00
impossible to detect then it becomes a
3:03
question of style over which generation
3:06
after generation of experts go to their
3:08
graves still arguing but the most
3:11
difficult mint catches the forger of
3:13
20th century paintings the
3:15
post-impressionist masters Picasso
3:18
Chagall Matisse and Modigliani walk into
3:22
any decent art shop you can buy the same
3:23
paper they use the same canvas the same
3:26
paint it could be argued that you don't
3:28
even have to be much of a painter to
3:30
paint in the manner of some of the
3:32
modern masters and that is the essence
3:35
of all art forgery not to simply copy a
3:38
painting by say Picasso but to sit down
3:42
and create out of the whole canvas an
3:44
entirely new Picasso one that he might
3:47
have painted some examples is this the
3:52
Chagall or this
3:58
is this the fake 20 glee Ani or this
4:06
did only Matisse paint this one or this
4:10
one
4:14
all the fakes we've seen were painted by
4:16
the same man his name
4:18
well I called from a confidential French
4:21
Interpol file number 506 stroke six one
4:25
only haddad born coulomb france alias
4:30
fille du crest born dijon alias George
4:35
de Launay born en France alias Michele
4:41
Laroy born niece his best known as David
4:46
Stein born Alexandria Egypt one of the
4:50
most charming villains ever to take
4:52
brush in hand and stroll down the seans
4:54
Alizee and Park Avenue and through the
4:57
salons of Palm Beach David Stein made a
5:00
career and a fortune out of selling
5:02
cut-rate paintings in the manner of the
5:05
modern masters it took one of the
5:08
artists he was forging to finally catch
5:10
him out and now Stein or Haddad or
5:13
whatever his name is has served prison
5:16
sentences in the United States and
5:18
France he lives in Paris David Stein is
5:22
still painting but today he paints under
5:24
his own name and signs these pictures
5:27
with his own name he no longer signs
5:29
Chagall or Modigliani or Picasso but for
5:33
the purposes of this broadcast we asked
5:35
him to paint for us a Chagall David how
5:39
would you have presented it to a gallery
5:41
or private collector well as an original
5:44
gouache by Marc Chagall David how did it
5:46
all start how did you get into art
5:48
forgery well I was working for a French
5:51
newspaper one day I wanted to find out
5:54
really where it was all about as far as
5:56
dealing with paintings and I did a
6:00
little bit castle drawing and I went to
6:02
see you and I'll dealer I knew in Paris
6:04
and I had sort of built up a story that
6:08
I got it from my aunt in turn and she
6:11
added from the castle in the South of
6:14
France and without any paper
6:16
authentication or nothing and just
6:20
bought it for $2,000 you think it's a
6:23
genuine Picasso any boat a forgery
6:27
and he bought it so easily that it's
6:29
unbelievable then I carried on from
6:32
there eventually I became successful in
6:35
Paris in the South of France and I went
6:38
to Italy Spain Austria England and I
6:44
sold all in all these countries how much
6:48
money do you think you made in the
6:53
United States when the investigation was
6:57
found out exactly how much spending
7:00
where sold and how much business we did
7:02
was exactly eight hundred and fifty
7:05
seven thousand dollars if close to a
7:08
million how come the dealers were so
7:10
easily fooled over the years well
7:13
because they want to make money they
7:14
don't you know they were very scrupulous
7:16
about making money so to say close their
7:18
eyes
7:19
if it if they have some suspicions about
7:22
a painting do you think that goes on
7:25
today still Oh
7:26
I said this is the hole out market is
7:28
like that what's the most anyone ever
7:31
paid you for a forgery there was a
7:36
painting which was a cigar oil which
7:42
went for eighty four thousand dollars
7:48
Lloyd
7:49
where is it now well I don't know
7:53
because actually this painting never
7:55
came up in the investigation to us all
8:01
in the United States
8:03
to whom
8:06
each was sold to a collector by the name
8:09
of LD Cohen this is hanging on his walls
8:15
today I don't know
8:17
LD Cullen lives in Palm Beach Florida
8:20
Palm Beach is considered one art dealer
8:23
told me as a con man's paradise the old
8:27
and the new money that has retired along
8:30
this Gold Coast may not know much about
8:32
art but it can afford just about
8:35
anything and like most of the very rich
8:38
they are constantly vigilant for a
8:40
bargain
8:41
so in David Stein seasoned art forger
8:45
went down to Palm Beach it was written
8:47
in the stars that he would meet LD : new
8:51
art collector
8:52
tell me about Stein it was his in my
8:55
appeal to you Stein is an absolute
8:57
genius this man is a in the common
9:02
parlance a con man par excellence he
9:06
suave he's good-looking he's talented he
9:11
has a flair for conversation now we had
9:16
a piano here he sat down he played
9:18
Chopin's music as beautifully as you
9:21
seen Rachmaninoff he's a great piano
9:23
player and on the moment's notice he can
9:27
toss off a Chagall or a Picasso you
9:29
never know the difference
9:30
and he met society here he was destitute
9:33
he immediately bought a Rolls Royce
9:36
which he never paid for he has Const
9:39
themself in a beautiful apartment and
9:41
the finest hotel the colony he
9:43
surrounded himself with beautiful women
9:44
and before you know it he was giving
9:48
great paintings to charity so he get in
9:51
the limelight and he enticed a lot of
9:53
people of ions he's really was a master
9:56
showman Stein says that you bought a an
10:00
eighty four thousand dollar oil by
10:03
Chagall from hell what an eighty four
10:06
thousand dollar oil painting I never
10:08
paid eighty four thousand dollars for
10:10
any painting in my life nor did I buy
10:12
any should go the highest I paid for a
10:15
French penny
10:16
was $45,000 for that vault at that you
10:20
saw I never bought any French rot
10:21
outside that one painting why would why
10:23
would Stein make that claim he said that
10:26
that was one of the counts that didn't
10:27
come up against him was never good it's
10:30
entirely new to me what you're saying
10:32
because I never water Chagall not price
10:35
range row we had little sketches ago
10:36
it's two three thousand dollars what
10:39
were prompted to say that I don't know
10:41
what benefit he would get in saying that
10:42
they do some other color Colin are cones
10:45
of common names no he said LD cold and
10:47
we called the other paintings I brought
10:49
my girls and the the doofy which was
10:53
good and the de Kirikou and the Picasso
10:55
but never bore a shag on that range
10:58
price range at all
10:59
at no time I forget how many counts the
11:03
word gets David to the original
11:04
indictment ninety or a hundred something
11:07
like that but do you think that there
11:09
were more people who bought pictures
11:10
from him who refused to come forward at
11:12
the time it's common knowledge nobody
11:16
hates to be the florid and usually when
11:18
they afford the hate to tell you they
11:19
were reported so I think there were
11:21
numerous amount of people here that were
11:23
taken in by Stein and will never report
11:27
people have an abhorrence to show they
11:29
would that they were fleeced you know
11:31
that that Seagal that you sold to mr.
11:34
Cohen of Palm Beach how long did it take
11:36
you to paint that picture about three or
11:38
four days and was that how long normally
11:45
did it take you to knock out a say a
11:47
Chagall drawing or a Picasso join or
11:50
just a few you know just a morning or an
11:53
afternoon essence a few hours how do you
11:57
think the artists themselves react
11:59
towards forgeries maybe you know the
12:02
story about the Picasso's and Gertrude
12:04
Stein one day he comes to Gertrude
12:06
Stein's place and then she said that she
12:08
just lost a little painting by Cezanne
12:11
representing an apple so I said she was
12:14
all lost about it you know furious and
12:17
so he said well don't worry I'll come
12:19
back in a couple of hours and I will
12:21
have this little painting done for you
12:22
which is what he did he came back and he
12:25
had painted a little Cezanne
12:28
it's probably now over somewhere in the
12:30
museum or in the collection as a Caesar
12:33
in fact he's a Picasso and it's a
12:35
forgery too
12:36
Stein did not believe in beginning small
12:39
one of his first acts on arriving in the
12:42
United States was to set himself up in
12:44
an expensive apartment and gallery on
12:46
Park Avenue he was penniless
12:49
his only collateral an armload of
12:51
paintings Stein proceeded to as they say
12:55
make the scene in New York net the right
12:57
people went to the right parties and
12:59
sold pictures to well-established
13:01
galleries when he was finally caught he
13:04
was indicted on 97 counts of grand
13:06
larceny
13:07
none of the dealers to whom he sold
13:09
pictures care to comment about Stein the
13:11
art business or forgery David Stein has
13:15
no compunction about talking do you
13:18
think that in principle the art dealers
13:19
the art world is anxious to expose
13:23
forgers like yourself no no I think that
13:27
they want to avoid all this a because it
13:29
kills their business because the old all
13:33
the business is wrong you see as far as
13:36
this ridiculous prices you put on
13:40
paintings or drawings when why these
13:44
artists - who has such a high quotation
13:47
and other artists who have real talent
13:51
as well can't make it because it's just
13:53
a speculation is to start sort of the
13:55
stock exchange with the Magnificent
13:58
collection you have why do you collect
14:00
art about four years ago when I started
14:03
the stock market was at a notoriously
14:06
high figure so I sold the stock in the
14:08
market and I bought the art the market
14:11
went down the Aquanaut David who are the
14:14
real victims are there really victims
14:23
the dealer's so you couldn't say that
14:27
the dealers are really victims you know
14:29
they make so much money anyway and that
14:32
they are they can't be victims so what
14:36
you were doing was playing on their
14:38
greed yes you can say that by offering
14:42
them cut-rate Picasso's and sugar and
14:48
other to Matisse and doofy and Vlaminck
14:52
and then down again and Cocteau's and
14:56
quite a bit quite a lot once you were
14:59
exposed did people refuse to believe
15:03
that they'd been taken were they just as
15:05
happy to look at a painting on the wall
15:07
and say that is not a David Stein it is
15:09
a Pablo Picasso yes I think that a lot
15:14
of people wanted to keep these paintings
15:16
that they even even knowing sometimes
15:19
that they were my fraud read like I have
15:21
an example for friend of mine he I sold
15:27
her had sold her a Chagall the people of
15:30
the District Attorney's Office went to
15:32
see her and asked her to give this
15:35
painting for evidence and she says no
15:38
it's not going to leave my walls I want
15:40
to keep this painting I don't care if
15:42
his side Marc Chagall or whatever I said
15:45
I like the painting I want to keep it
15:46
the woman who bought this picture is
15:48
Anki Johnson a wealthy New York
15:50
businesswoman she is a former wife of
15:53
Charles Revson the cosmetic tycoon when
15:57
David Stein admitted that he painted
15:59
this Chagall why did you not want to
16:02
bring charges against him why did you
16:04
prefer to keep the picture because I
16:06
loved to picture and I always liked your
16:09
girl and I couldn't see any difference
16:13
as a matter of fact when it was hanging
16:16
in my apartment of the shariah
16:18
Netherlands a very well-known AIA dealer
16:21
who I wouldn't say by name right now
16:25
because I don't think that would be fair
16:26
taught me that is Oh anchor you have a
16:29
marvelous Chagall there so and I think
16:33
why should you destroy something that
16:35
you like very much
16:36
so it doesn't make any difference - as
16:38
it really doesn't know I think a picture
16:41
if you like it if it's painted by a
16:45
Chagall or by David Stein at this time I
16:49
don't think it makes any difference
16:50
nobody can tell the difference it's just
16:53
the idea maybe that it's not worth the
16:56
money but I don't know I don't think
16:59
that's very important don't you think
17:01
it's extraordinary every victim of his
17:04
that I've spoken to yourself another
17:06
victim
17:08
everyone who's met it myself the
17:11
district attorney at the time was now a
17:14
judge not one of these people have a bad
17:17
word to say about this man well it's a I
17:22
suppose he is a nice man it's just that
17:25
I think if he would have had a very rich
17:26
father that he wouldn't have had to do
17:28
this he just liked to live very well and
17:30
it was an easy way of making a lot of
17:32
money in a short time he didn't want to
17:35
take the time to really do his own work
17:38
and paint and you know started like the
17:42
starving artist that's not David Stein
17:44
style he would like to write around in a
17:46
Bentley live on Park Avenue
17:49
like we all like to do and he want to do
17:51
it in a hurry okay it's pretty much done
17:54
now the fine took this painting into a
17:57
gallery how much do you think a dealer
17:59
would offer me for it
18:01
well actually a painting like this one
18:05
we have quoted about thirty thousand
18:08
dollars now of course if you would take
18:10
it to a Gary yourself
18:11
they're probably bargained with you down
18:14
to twenty thousand or something do you
18:16
think there's any chance that if I
18:17
walked out of this studio now down
18:19
saint-germain and into a gallery I could
18:22
see a David Stein under the name of
18:24
Picasso for sale well there there's at
18:27
least it could be about two or three
18:29
hundred chances David Stein was finally
18:33
caught when he was in the process of
18:35
selling three Chagall's to a New York
18:37
dealer Marc Chagall himself happened to
18:40
be in New York at the time and was asked
18:42
to confirm or deny diabolical was all he
18:45
said but Madame Chagall was more
18:47
cautious she asked the dealer first
18:50
how much he paid for the pictures when
18:52
he quoted a bargain price she said how
18:55
could you believe there were Chagall's
18:57
at that price
by Morley Safer
60 Minutes
Feb 23, 2014
Back in the 1970s, Morley Safer interviewed art forger David Stein, who divulged the secrets of his trade
Transcript
In his lifetime the
0:05
great French impressionist painter Koro
0:07
painted 2,000 canvases of that number
0:11
more than 3000 are in the United States
0:13
the subject tonight is forgery the
0:16
gentle art of forgery a fascinating
0:19
subject that is as old as art itself and
0:21
what makes it fascinating is that we
0:24
know so little about it we can only talk
0:26
about unsuccessful forgeries how many
0:29
successful ones are hanging in museums
0:31
and private collections we can only
0:33
guess all those Kouros are a case in
0:35
point the thing about forgers is that
0:38
they hit us in the two most sensitive
0:40
parts of our Anatomy our pocketbook and
0:42
our aesthetics and they play upon our
0:45
least attractive quality greed one
0:49
hundred thousand I have it a hundred
0:50
thousand dollars for now a hundred
0:52
thousand dollars 100,000 100,000 and
0:55
practically every major sale new record
0:57
prices for artists for periods of art
1:00
are established that saw the bees and
1:02
Christie's in London at Parke Bernet in
1:04
New York old master works are knocked
1:07
down at auction for millions of dollars
1:09
nine hundred thousand 1 million get is
1:12
11 hundred thousand three hundred
1:13
thousand over here now two feet of
1:15
canvas can be inch 4 inch the most
1:18
valuable commodity in the world it's not
1:21
surprising then that the art market has
1:23
quietly attracted dollar-for-dollar
1:25
some of the world's most talented
1:27
scoundrels there's hardly a museum in
1:31
the world that has not in good faith
1:32
hung great master works actually painted
1:36
by great master forgers Rembrandt was
1:39
for a long time a tempting favorite for
1:41
Dutch forgers trained in the traditional
1:43
academic style of the master Botticelli
1:48
the preserve of the very very rich and
1:51
the very important museums has had some
1:54
remarkably talented admirers this is an
1:57
original by the great florentine master
2:01
this is a forgery made in the 30s not
2:04
discovered until the 60s and even what
2:08
must be the most famous painting in the
2:10
world La Gioconda the Mona Lisa
2:13
every few years a new one turns up whose
2:16
owner claims is the real one the
2:18
Leonardo is this the real one or is this
2:24
the da Vinci both are copies this is the
2:31
Mona Lisa the one hanging in the Louvre
2:33
which experts agree may not be the best
2:36
but is certainly the first detecting
2:40
forgeries of old masters has become a
2:43
relatively easy job technology can date
2:46
pigment and canvas even the dust and
2:49
soot that great forgers use to give the
2:51
impression of three or four hundred
2:52
years of time forgers of the period and
2:56
there have been forgers as long as
2:58
there's been painting are almost
3:00
impossible to detect then it becomes a
3:03
question of style over which generation
3:06
after generation of experts go to their
3:08
graves still arguing but the most
3:11
difficult mint catches the forger of
3:13
20th century paintings the
3:15
post-impressionist masters Picasso
3:18
Chagall Matisse and Modigliani walk into
3:22
any decent art shop you can buy the same
3:23
paper they use the same canvas the same
3:26
paint it could be argued that you don't
3:28
even have to be much of a painter to
3:30
paint in the manner of some of the
3:32
modern masters and that is the essence
3:35
of all art forgery not to simply copy a
3:38
painting by say Picasso but to sit down
3:42
and create out of the whole canvas an
3:44
entirely new Picasso one that he might
3:47
have painted some examples is this the
3:52
Chagall or this
3:58
is this the fake 20 glee Ani or this
4:06
did only Matisse paint this one or this
4:10
one
4:14
all the fakes we've seen were painted by
4:16
the same man his name
4:18
well I called from a confidential French
4:21
Interpol file number 506 stroke six one
4:25
only haddad born coulomb france alias
4:30
fille du crest born dijon alias George
4:35
de Launay born en France alias Michele
4:41
Laroy born niece his best known as David
4:46
Stein born Alexandria Egypt one of the
4:50
most charming villains ever to take
4:52
brush in hand and stroll down the seans
4:54
Alizee and Park Avenue and through the
4:57
salons of Palm Beach David Stein made a
5:00
career and a fortune out of selling
5:02
cut-rate paintings in the manner of the
5:05
modern masters it took one of the
5:08
artists he was forging to finally catch
5:10
him out and now Stein or Haddad or
5:13
whatever his name is has served prison
5:16
sentences in the United States and
5:18
France he lives in Paris David Stein is
5:22
still painting but today he paints under
5:24
his own name and signs these pictures
5:27
with his own name he no longer signs
5:29
Chagall or Modigliani or Picasso but for
5:33
the purposes of this broadcast we asked
5:35
him to paint for us a Chagall David how
5:39
would you have presented it to a gallery
5:41
or private collector well as an original
5:44
gouache by Marc Chagall David how did it
5:46
all start how did you get into art
5:48
forgery well I was working for a French
5:51
newspaper one day I wanted to find out
5:54
really where it was all about as far as
5:56
dealing with paintings and I did a
6:00
little bit castle drawing and I went to
6:02
see you and I'll dealer I knew in Paris
6:04
and I had sort of built up a story that
6:08
I got it from my aunt in turn and she
6:11
added from the castle in the South of
6:14
France and without any paper
6:16
authentication or nothing and just
6:20
bought it for $2,000 you think it's a
6:23
genuine Picasso any boat a forgery
6:27
and he bought it so easily that it's
6:29
unbelievable then I carried on from
6:32
there eventually I became successful in
6:35
Paris in the South of France and I went
6:38
to Italy Spain Austria England and I
6:44
sold all in all these countries how much
6:48
money do you think you made in the
6:53
United States when the investigation was
6:57
found out exactly how much spending
7:00
where sold and how much business we did
7:02
was exactly eight hundred and fifty
7:05
seven thousand dollars if close to a
7:08
million how come the dealers were so
7:10
easily fooled over the years well
7:13
because they want to make money they
7:14
don't you know they were very scrupulous
7:16
about making money so to say close their
7:18
eyes
7:19
if it if they have some suspicions about
7:22
a painting do you think that goes on
7:25
today still Oh
7:26
I said this is the hole out market is
7:28
like that what's the most anyone ever
7:31
paid you for a forgery there was a
7:36
painting which was a cigar oil which
7:42
went for eighty four thousand dollars
7:48
Lloyd
7:49
where is it now well I don't know
7:53
because actually this painting never
7:55
came up in the investigation to us all
8:01
in the United States
8:03
to whom
8:06
each was sold to a collector by the name
8:09
of LD Cohen this is hanging on his walls
8:15
today I don't know
8:17
LD Cullen lives in Palm Beach Florida
8:20
Palm Beach is considered one art dealer
8:23
told me as a con man's paradise the old
8:27
and the new money that has retired along
8:30
this Gold Coast may not know much about
8:32
art but it can afford just about
8:35
anything and like most of the very rich
8:38
they are constantly vigilant for a
8:40
bargain
8:41
so in David Stein seasoned art forger
8:45
went down to Palm Beach it was written
8:47
in the stars that he would meet LD : new
8:51
art collector
8:52
tell me about Stein it was his in my
8:55
appeal to you Stein is an absolute
8:57
genius this man is a in the common
9:02
parlance a con man par excellence he
9:06
suave he's good-looking he's talented he
9:11
has a flair for conversation now we had
9:16
a piano here he sat down he played
9:18
Chopin's music as beautifully as you
9:21
seen Rachmaninoff he's a great piano
9:23
player and on the moment's notice he can
9:27
toss off a Chagall or a Picasso you
9:29
never know the difference
9:30
and he met society here he was destitute
9:33
he immediately bought a Rolls Royce
9:36
which he never paid for he has Const
9:39
themself in a beautiful apartment and
9:41
the finest hotel the colony he
9:43
surrounded himself with beautiful women
9:44
and before you know it he was giving
9:48
great paintings to charity so he get in
9:51
the limelight and he enticed a lot of
9:53
people of ions he's really was a master
9:56
showman Stein says that you bought a an
10:00
eighty four thousand dollar oil by
10:03
Chagall from hell what an eighty four
10:06
thousand dollar oil painting I never
10:08
paid eighty four thousand dollars for
10:10
any painting in my life nor did I buy
10:12
any should go the highest I paid for a
10:15
French penny
10:16
was $45,000 for that vault at that you
10:20
saw I never bought any French rot
10:21
outside that one painting why would why
10:23
would Stein make that claim he said that
10:26
that was one of the counts that didn't
10:27
come up against him was never good it's
10:30
entirely new to me what you're saying
10:32
because I never water Chagall not price
10:35
range row we had little sketches ago
10:36
it's two three thousand dollars what
10:39
were prompted to say that I don't know
10:41
what benefit he would get in saying that
10:42
they do some other color Colin are cones
10:45
of common names no he said LD cold and
10:47
we called the other paintings I brought
10:49
my girls and the the doofy which was
10:53
good and the de Kirikou and the Picasso
10:55
but never bore a shag on that range
10:58
price range at all
10:59
at no time I forget how many counts the
11:03
word gets David to the original
11:04
indictment ninety or a hundred something
11:07
like that but do you think that there
11:09
were more people who bought pictures
11:10
from him who refused to come forward at
11:12
the time it's common knowledge nobody
11:16
hates to be the florid and usually when
11:18
they afford the hate to tell you they
11:19
were reported so I think there were
11:21
numerous amount of people here that were
11:23
taken in by Stein and will never report
11:27
people have an abhorrence to show they
11:29
would that they were fleeced you know
11:31
that that Seagal that you sold to mr.
11:34
Cohen of Palm Beach how long did it take
11:36
you to paint that picture about three or
11:38
four days and was that how long normally
11:45
did it take you to knock out a say a
11:47
Chagall drawing or a Picasso join or
11:50
just a few you know just a morning or an
11:53
afternoon essence a few hours how do you
11:57
think the artists themselves react
11:59
towards forgeries maybe you know the
12:02
story about the Picasso's and Gertrude
12:04
Stein one day he comes to Gertrude
12:06
Stein's place and then she said that she
12:08
just lost a little painting by Cezanne
12:11
representing an apple so I said she was
12:14
all lost about it you know furious and
12:17
so he said well don't worry I'll come
12:19
back in a couple of hours and I will
12:21
have this little painting done for you
12:22
which is what he did he came back and he
12:25
had painted a little Cezanne
12:28
it's probably now over somewhere in the
12:30
museum or in the collection as a Caesar
12:33
in fact he's a Picasso and it's a
12:35
forgery too
12:36
Stein did not believe in beginning small
12:39
one of his first acts on arriving in the
12:42
United States was to set himself up in
12:44
an expensive apartment and gallery on
12:46
Park Avenue he was penniless
12:49
his only collateral an armload of
12:51
paintings Stein proceeded to as they say
12:55
make the scene in New York net the right
12:57
people went to the right parties and
12:59
sold pictures to well-established
13:01
galleries when he was finally caught he
13:04
was indicted on 97 counts of grand
13:06
larceny
13:07
none of the dealers to whom he sold
13:09
pictures care to comment about Stein the
13:11
art business or forgery David Stein has
13:15
no compunction about talking do you
13:18
think that in principle the art dealers
13:19
the art world is anxious to expose
13:23
forgers like yourself no no I think that
13:27
they want to avoid all this a because it
13:29
kills their business because the old all
13:33
the business is wrong you see as far as
13:36
this ridiculous prices you put on
13:40
paintings or drawings when why these
13:44
artists - who has such a high quotation
13:47
and other artists who have real talent
13:51
as well can't make it because it's just
13:53
a speculation is to start sort of the
13:55
stock exchange with the Magnificent
13:58
collection you have why do you collect
14:00
art about four years ago when I started
14:03
the stock market was at a notoriously
14:06
high figure so I sold the stock in the
14:08
market and I bought the art the market
14:11
went down the Aquanaut David who are the
14:14
real victims are there really victims
14:23
the dealer's so you couldn't say that
14:27
the dealers are really victims you know
14:29
they make so much money anyway and that
14:32
they are they can't be victims so what
14:36
you were doing was playing on their
14:38
greed yes you can say that by offering
14:42
them cut-rate Picasso's and sugar and
14:48
other to Matisse and doofy and Vlaminck
14:52
and then down again and Cocteau's and
14:56
quite a bit quite a lot once you were
14:59
exposed did people refuse to believe
15:03
that they'd been taken were they just as
15:05
happy to look at a painting on the wall
15:07
and say that is not a David Stein it is
15:09
a Pablo Picasso yes I think that a lot
15:14
of people wanted to keep these paintings
15:16
that they even even knowing sometimes
15:19
that they were my fraud read like I have
15:21
an example for friend of mine he I sold
15:27
her had sold her a Chagall the people of
15:30
the District Attorney's Office went to
15:32
see her and asked her to give this
15:35
painting for evidence and she says no
15:38
it's not going to leave my walls I want
15:40
to keep this painting I don't care if
15:42
his side Marc Chagall or whatever I said
15:45
I like the painting I want to keep it
15:46
the woman who bought this picture is
15:48
Anki Johnson a wealthy New York
15:50
businesswoman she is a former wife of
15:53
Charles Revson the cosmetic tycoon when
15:57
David Stein admitted that he painted
15:59
this Chagall why did you not want to
16:02
bring charges against him why did you
16:04
prefer to keep the picture because I
16:06
loved to picture and I always liked your
16:09
girl and I couldn't see any difference
16:13
as a matter of fact when it was hanging
16:16
in my apartment of the shariah
16:18
Netherlands a very well-known AIA dealer
16:21
who I wouldn't say by name right now
16:25
because I don't think that would be fair
16:26
taught me that is Oh anchor you have a
16:29
marvelous Chagall there so and I think
16:33
why should you destroy something that
16:35
you like very much
16:36
so it doesn't make any difference - as
16:38
it really doesn't know I think a picture
16:41
if you like it if it's painted by a
16:45
Chagall or by David Stein at this time I
16:49
don't think it makes any difference
16:50
nobody can tell the difference it's just
16:53
the idea maybe that it's not worth the
16:56
money but I don't know I don't think
16:59
that's very important don't you think
17:01
it's extraordinary every victim of his
17:04
that I've spoken to yourself another
17:06
victim
17:08
everyone who's met it myself the
17:11
district attorney at the time was now a
17:14
judge not one of these people have a bad
17:17
word to say about this man well it's a I
17:22
suppose he is a nice man it's just that
17:25
I think if he would have had a very rich
17:26
father that he wouldn't have had to do
17:28
this he just liked to live very well and
17:30
it was an easy way of making a lot of
17:32
money in a short time he didn't want to
17:35
take the time to really do his own work
17:38
and paint and you know started like the
17:42
starving artist that's not David Stein
17:44
style he would like to write around in a
17:46
Bentley live on Park Avenue
17:49
like we all like to do and he want to do
17:51
it in a hurry okay it's pretty much done
17:54
now the fine took this painting into a
17:57
gallery how much do you think a dealer
17:59
would offer me for it
18:01
well actually a painting like this one
18:05
we have quoted about thirty thousand
18:08
dollars now of course if you would take
18:10
it to a Gary yourself
18:11
they're probably bargained with you down
18:14
to twenty thousand or something do you
18:16
think there's any chance that if I
18:17
walked out of this studio now down
18:19
saint-germain and into a gallery I could
18:22
see a David Stein under the name of
18:24
Picasso for sale well there there's at
18:27
least it could be about two or three
18:29
hundred chances David Stein was finally
18:33
caught when he was in the process of
18:35
selling three Chagall's to a New York
18:37
dealer Marc Chagall himself happened to
18:40
be in New York at the time and was asked
18:42
to confirm or deny diabolical was all he
18:45
said but Madame Chagall was more
18:47
cautious she asked the dealer first
18:50
how much he paid for the pictures when
18:52
he quoted a bargain price she said how
18:55
could you believe there were Chagall's
18:57
at that price